Hello, I’m Dr Frank Luntz, and welcome back to the latest installment of America speaks right here on straight arrow news this week, arguably the most controversial issue in America today, diversity, equity and inclusion, otherwise known as dei a policy strongly endorsed by the Biden administration and just as equally opposed by the Trump administration. The big question, what does the average American think? So we went out and asked them, and what we heard was a divided, polarized country on the issue. So let’s listen and let’s learn. The most controversial issue in America right now is the phrase diversity, equity and inclusion, otherwise known as dei before I go to any of this, I want you to give me a sense, just a sense, to describe your point of view about the impact and value of diversity, equity and inclusion. Tanya, I’m going to start with you.
I think it’s very important. Based on the history of our country, I also think the last few years, we’ve gone kind of to the extreme on it, and I think we need to settle somewhere in the middle, respecting the past, but understanding we also need to move forward.
Jordan, in a sense, what is your view about diversity, equity, inclusion, otherwise known as Dei?
It’s necessary. It’s important. It works, and it shouldn’t be controversial.
Chris, you
uh, two different things. Diversity in general, is a very good thing. Dei as an institution, has zero value.
Rebecca, um, it’s um, it is. It’s essential. I had a professor in college tell me that when she was divorced and she couldn’t even get a credit card in her own name, and it really wasn’t that long ago, and I think it’s ridiculous that we should even have to implement these programs. It’s everyone should absolutely be on equal footing, ground, equal footing. From the beginning, we shouldn’t have to have these programs. Everyone should be seen as equal and these programs shouldn’t be necessary. It’s sad that we have a need for them.
Steven,
I think dei is very much overblown. It’s very similar to what Critical Race Theory was a few years ago, something that’s used by the by the Republicans as a as a divisive issue.
Michelle, I agree with Chris, diversity is great, but it has to be through meritocracy. You don’t get your position because of the color of your skin or your sexual orientation. Joseph,
dei is it should be merit based. It’s merit based versus Dei. I just, not too long ago, about a year ago, retired from the military after 30 years. And I can tell you that if, if we had just gone on dei alone for 20 years or so in the military, I think that we would have had some unsuccessful campaigns. So it should be merit based. That’s what the NBA does. The baseball does. It’s merit based. If we want to do it proportional to the different races, then you should have X amount of Hispanics and NBA and X amount of blacks, X amount of whites NBA based on the population and and I’m absolutely not in favor of that should be.
Diversity is America, in a way, I think it is a great thing. After working for one of the biggest companies with diversity, equity and inclusion policies, it’s really rock solid. Where I’m at it goes too far in some ways, diversity, like I said, Is America at the end of the day, but it gets intense, and there needs to be something done. I just don’t know what
Donna, I think Dei, I’m not a fan. Think it’s gone way too far. It almost, for me, it’s didn’t earn it. I’m all for merit based I’m with Joe on the we should be doing everything based on merit. Obi, I
mean, dei is very important because it allows us to see the stereotypes and our biases in the world. And I think in this climate. Right now, dei allows people to see how we feel about other cultures, other genders, other races, and that’s why it’s very important to have dei
Nancy. I
want the surgeon while I’m laying on the operating table to be the best at what he does not based on what the color of his skin is, or her or anything like that. Same thing with the plane that I get on, I want the best pilot that’s there, not somebody who got in because we had to meet a quota. No, the best person who does the best job. That’s the person I want and Pierce.
I think that when implemented properly, dei is a very good way to, like, you know, foster talent, and it also is a good way to open doors for a lot of underrepresented groups. However, I think with anything else in this world, it can be abused. And you know, if my 3.6 GPA shouldn’t get me the job over somebody’s black skin in their 3.8 GPA, obviously they should have a job based on experience, based on merit, based on things like that. And if their grades and experience is better than mine, then you know that’s that’s what it is, and I think that’s how it should be. But I do also think, in a way, that it does foster innovation. It expands talent groups across workplaces, and diversity is ultimately America, and how America was founded,
by a show of hands, who thinks dei is undercutting what makes America exceptional, who’s really opposed to it? Here, 34567, of you who’s eight of you who’s very much in favor of it here. Raise your hands. 1234, of you. I want to know why it matters so much to you. And Jordan. I’m going to start with you and diera, I’m going to go to you next. Why is it so essential for American society when clearly it’s causing an awful lot of internal angst and division. It’s
important because we need to remember what happened, why these programs were implemented in the first place, why they were birthed. They were birthed because, unfortunately, we don’t live in a fantasy world. We live in a reality. The reality of this country is that we started out with discrimination, segregation, or literally people not being seen as human beings, three quarters of a human being. So that’s trickled down, obviously. Just look at your actual American history, black history, all these things. So yeah, so when dei why it needed to happen is because you could be you could have candidates like, just to say, the business world, you have equal candidates of equal abilities, but one is, you know, white, or may, you know what I mean, one is white and one is minority, majority minority, and unfortunately, the minorities continue to get glossed over. And I’ll take it a step.
Chris is Jordan Correct? Yeah,
Chris, you said no, I actually think the average white person is now being glossed over, as opposed to the minority. I think they put too much in of an and like I said, I want to preface it by saying diversity is a very good thing, but to go out of your way, I think they’ve gone so far that they’re going out of their way to push the DEI that I think it’s no longer an equal playing field. I think the scale for the last 510, years is actually tilting against the majority.
Rebecca, your reaction to what Chris just said? I disagree,
and my family has. My family came over after the Civil War and after all this. So I mean, we weren’t, we weren’t, you know, being that we weren’t, we weren’t slaveholders in any of this stuff. But try being an older woman. We’re, I mean, I live down here in Atlanta. I mean, and half the women here get offended because a man opens the door for him, I mean, but try being a woman business owner. We’re, we’re just going on an older woman business owner. We’re discriminated against just just as much as the minorities. I mean, the door swings both ways.
Joseph, is there that kind of discrimination in America?
I don’t believe it. I don’t believe that there is. Because when I walk into a company, when or a retail store, I’m not asking what’s the color of the owner. I’m just going there to buy what I need, a quality product, and that’s it. So. So I would say that that Dei, in my humble opinion, has made this country more racist than it was before. Dei,
absolutely. Coby, you agree with that. Yeah.
I disagree, because I think this country, unfortunately, there’s a lot of discrimination. And like Jordan said, we’re not living in a fairy tale. I mean, there’s racism, there’s discrimination out there, and unfortunately, we have to have programs like dei to remind people that we need to be nice to each other, and, you know, allow other people to see each other’s views. But unfortunately, that’s not happening.
Nancy, is there a lot of discrimination in America?
Yes, my husband was in it, and with the the Indian population, he was discriminated against, not promoted all of that. And it was not based on merit, it was not based on skill. Was based on dei and that was 10 years ago. Your husband’s white. He was, he passed, yeah,
but he was white. So you’re saying that he was discriminated against in the
in the information technology world, absolutely
dear. You got your hand up? Go ahead, yeah,
prime example of how dei is so important. I don’t want to say the bank’s name, but it was a really large bank who was in a lawsuit because they did, like a research on black people getting denied for home mortgages and things in that sort versus the same people same age. But just a white person, for instance, will get a proof and the black person had more money, had more proof of it. And you know, so if d I was more in place and more talked about more important to people, then maybe those things wouldn’t happen.
Michelle, is that a good argument for Dei, well,
I don’t think you’re gonna you’re gonna change if people are racist or bigoted with the law, it you have to change people’s hearts, and a law is not going to do that. That’s what just causing the division. Is the it’s the law, and I gotta teach quickly respond
to that. It’s business and corporations, though. So these, if these things are put into place, then they have to follow it. What
happened to affirmative action?
About it is, it’s not, it’s not about changing hearts and minds. I look at the and these policies the same way that I look at the laws. You shouldn’t have to tell people don’t commit murder, don’t, you know, rape, someone don’t do all these things. You have to do that because people are inherently fallible, and they have there. You can’t police someone, not to be racist or whatever, what you can do is make sure that if they discriminate against someone, that they get that they get held accountable. That’s the point. That’s the whole point. The
whole and the whole point is for for white men to hate themselves because they’re white men at the i Deep is that too
sounds like a personal problem. Why are they hitting themselves? That’s
what dei teach, is that they should be ashamed of their whiteness.
When it comes to my issue with dei and kind of the extreme to it. My company has over 80 dei programs concurrently, and it’s not even about race. I have a friend that lives above me, actually, that his father went to one of the most prestigious schools in the nation, white all that kind of stuff. And, you know, I didn’t come from anything. And the fact that he listened to music at a young age, a little loud, and can’t hear as well now he’s in the DEI program, and the fact that I’m not eligible for that, and the income disparity. I mean, the guy had a five bedroom mansion, and I had, you know, my apartment, growing up so same skin tone, just he gets connections. I don’t, and that’s a shame. It’s it’s gone really far.
Is that a shame, or is that unfair?
I would like to say it’s unfair, but that just sounds like me complaining about myself. So Okay, remember,
let me push it. Is that an American Hunter?
Yeah. I mean, diversities are strength, right? Like, we’d like, we need to accept all ideas, but just seeing the different. It’s about your upbringing, right? And I don’t want to say he was a Nepo baby, but the guy has a plaque at MIT of his dad there and and that’s crazy, man, I had it totally different than he did. And he gets connections, he gets a little bit of extra money, gets a little bit of extra fun days at work, and just, I’m not eligible for any of that, and it sounds like I’m just being selfish and complaining, but we share the same skin tone. Brother, there’s no difference about us. It’s it’s truly, it’s wild.
Milan is is dei un American
first. I’m proud to hear people across the political spectrum saying that diversity is our strength. I think that’s really nice to hear. I really agree with Jordan. We do not live. In a post racial America, and we need to do all steps necessary to get there. I do not think that dei is the answer for hiring, but there needs to be some type of over correction to get where we need to be, as in America,
as you can hear, the conversation started respectfully when it definitely became more heated as our panelists began to discuss the consequences of dei policies. The American people clearly believe in equal opportunity, but not in equal outcomes, and while we are asking for a better solution, not everyone wants to dump the current program. Let’s hear why Donna Eli suggests we need an over correction. Do you agree with that?
No, why not? I think dei has gone too far,
because,
because it’s not merit based. We’re looking at other other, other things, uh, skin color, uh, gender. Instead of who can do the best job, I want the best person, the best candidate, regardless of of what they look like, what their what their background is, I just want, I want the best the best surgeon, the best pilot,
Obi, what’s wrong with that?
I don’t know. I just, I just think about, like, what? And again, maybe I’m naive because I’m young, but like, I mean, there was a time in our history, especially in this country, where people like me weren’t having an advantage, you know, especially when it, when it came to going to school or gained a job. You know, I know my mom told me stories about how she was brought up and how it was hard for her. So I think about those stories, and I think about, wow, you know, these programs that exist now. I mean, is it really unfair? I mean, some ways like it was unfair when people were treated disproportionately because the skin color their skin, so it’s
like, but now you’re saying it’s okay to do the same thing. Just, I don’t
think it’s, I don’t think it’s I’m not saying that that white people shouldn’t be disproportionately affected. I don’t think it’s fair that there are people who are white that are feeling the effects of these programs. I think there needs to be changes and like to Eli’s point. I mean, dei should not just be the only answer, but we need to come to a point as a society where we can see each other, not because of our skin color.
Frank, I don’t mean you
would be treated equal, but that’s not what you want. You don’t want to be treated equal. You want to be treated differently. You cannot both
treated and equally. What I’m saying is, in some ways, minorities in this country are still being treated unequally. I mean, we have examples of that to die just point like, I mean, yeah, if you’re trying to get a mortgage, like black people do have a disadvantage when it comes to getting mortgages because the color their skin, especially in some communities, I don’t think that’s fair, but that’s the problem. You know, we’re just there’s some people out there that don’t seem to have this sense of reality that we can be together, and it shouldn’t just be about race.
And also, nobody brought up this point. If dei just doesn’t just help about skin color, it’s also about gender, things like that. There’s a lot of places that would not let women be a part of their business and be a part of a lot of different things. This, this program is expensive. It encompasses a lot of different things. And unfortunately, you know, I would love to live in this utopia that some people, some of you, I think, believe that exists, but I think that there. I’m going to say this when there’s a certain level of privilege in being removed from having to think about these things, when you are a minority, which some of us are here. You see, you, you feel and see and witness the impact of things in a different way than some other people might. And that’s just the reality. It’s just the reality of it. And I think that maybe the I agree with Eli, maybe Dei, as it currently is, needs to completely be re evaluated as matter of fact. I need to, they need to, they need to throw all those letters out. Come up with something else, because it’s been weaponized and just abused. But I do think at the end of the day, you have to come up with some level of we’re not all going to be treated as equal. This just doesn’t happen. But you have to create safeguards so that people can be held accountable if they don’t view people equally, and especially in the business world, business world and all kinds
of things. Go ahead.
You say, Chris, I would say, Now I know racism exists and all that. I would say, in general, though in a capitalistic society, I think overall, people are held accountable. So if the, you know, if the the widget maker does not hire any minorities, and he only hires straight white males, and the business down the street finds out that, you know, maybe Black, Hispanic women, maybe they’re really good widget makers in a capitalistic society, that company down the street is going to hire those people, and I think it works itself out, for the most part, that you’d be stupid not to consider minorities and women in the workforce. You know, it would actually hurt your business if you didn’t look at everybody equally to start and just take everybody based on merit. Daniel, I think if I could bring it back, I think Joseph mentioned, he brought up sports, you know, if there was dei in the NBA, how would that product look? If there was dei in the NHL, how would that product look? It works itself out where the meritocracy gives you the best product.
I think that that’s just really quick. I think that that’s a false equivalency in terms of sports, because sports is about athletics and certain just things that are completely different than having a regular. We all have a right, right on liberty, happiness. We have a right to have a regular. What a regular job where we can just make a fair wage, right? That’s a lot of times that’s not happening. And what you said, Chris, I I think what you said, again, I appreciate the your intention behind it, but it’s just not the real world.
As a way to close this conversation, what exactly should the government do when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion? Don’t complain. Tell me exactly what policy you want them to pursue. Michelle, what is going to do when it comes to Dei?
We need to scrap Dei. There needs to be diversity, but it needs to be earned. Thirsty. Nobody has a right to have have a job. You need to earn a job
dear or what should the government do?
They should continue to push it so we can all feel like we’re valued and equal and have opportunities just as the next person.
Joseph, what should the government do?
They should do away with Dei, and it should be a meritocracy.
Stephen, what should the government do when it comes to Dei?
Do a better job of explaining what it is and how it benefits people. I think it’s perceived that it’s whites against everybody else, and that’s really not the case.
Obi, what should the government do?
I mean, not call it Dei, because it triggers a lot of people. Maybe call it something else, but we still need to have some sort of awareness of each other’s cultures and genders and all the above.
And Tanya, what should the government do? Merit focused so it’s interesting to me that half of you speak of merit as the priority, and the other half of you speak of the principle of inclusion as the priority. I think this debate is going to go on for a lot longer than the next few weeks or next few months, but I do appreciate that it was a civil debate, so I want to thank you for that conversation. When considering dei there’s one principle and priority that seems to matter most in the developing discussion, merit or meritocracy? Do you deserve and have you earned your status in life? But beyond that unifying value, the debate becomes more heated and more divided. I am sure we will return to this topic in the months ahead, but until then, I’m Dr Frank Luntz, and this has been America speaks right here, on straight on news you.