This week on Weapons and Warfare, host Ryan Robertson explores the Army’s modernization efforts, focusing on the M-10 Booker and plans for the XM-30. The Army’s leadership emphasized the importance of these vehicles in enhancing operational effectiveness. The M-10 Booker stands out for its advanced design to improve troop transport and mission efficiency, while the XM-30 promises cutting-edge technology to meet evolving battlefield demands.
Through interviews with military leaders and experts, gain insights into the challenges and innovations shaping the future of ground warfare.
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Also featured in this episode:
- North Koreans captured in Ukraine.
- China launches new amphibious assault ship.
- Taiwan runs scramble drills.
- Weapon of the Week: SRC’s Ghost Mantis, a low-cost, modular, next-gen electronic warfare payload that enables advanced concepts of operations and tactics for collaborative combat aircraft.
You can subscribe to the Weapons and Warfare podcast on the platform of your choosing here.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
HELLO AND WELCOME TO WEAPONS AND WARFARE FOR STRAIGHT ARROW NEWS. I’M RYAN ROBERTSON. JUST AHEAD ON THIS WEEK’S EPISODE…
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
GROUND VEHICLE MODERNIZATION: THE ARMY WAS TALKING ABOUT IT FOR YEARS, BUT WE’RE FINALLY STARTING TO SEE THE NEEDLE MOVE. WE CHECK IN WITH ARMY LEADERSHIP AS THEY WORK TO MAKE THE XM-30 A REALITY AND BRING THE M-10 BOOKER ONLINE.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
PLUS, THE RACE FOR SPACE ONBOARD THE COLLABORATIVE COMBAT AIRCRAFT IS ON. IN OUR WEAPON OF THE WEEK, WE TAKE A LOOK AT SRC’S GHOST MANTIS TO SEE WHAT IT’S BRINGING TO THE FIGHT.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
BUT FIRST SOME HEADLINES YOU MAY HAVE MISSED.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
NEXT MONTH MARKS THE THIRD YEAR OF RUSSIA’S ILLEGAL INVASION OF UKRAINE DESPITE PRESIDENT TRUMP’S CAMPAIGN PROMISE TO END THE CONFLICT BEFORE TAKING OFFICE.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
AS THAT ANNIVERSARY LOOMS UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY ANNOUNCED UKRAINIAN FORCES CAPTURED NORTH KOREAN SOLDIERS FIGHTING WITH RUSSIANS IN THE KURSK REGION. ZELENSKYY’S STATEMENT FOLLOWS NEW UKRAINIAN ATTACKS IN KURSK AIMED AT HOLDING GROUND TAKEN IN AUGUST. THE SUBSEQUENT RUSSIAN COUNTERATTACK STRETCHED UKRAINIAN FORCES THIN, CAUSING SIGNIFICANT CASUALTIES AND THE RECAPTURE OF MORE THAN 40% OF THE TERRITORY, PROMPTING SOME IN THE PENTAGON PRESS CORPS TO ASK IF RUSSIA GAINED THE UPPER HAND.
[MAJ. GEN. PAT RYDER]
“What we’re seeing on the battlefield is that, especially in the East, Russia has made some incremental gains. Of course, it’s very tough fighting, as well as in the Kursk region as well. But when you talk about the upper hand, of course, tactically, again other than those incremental gains, what you’re seeing strategically is that again Russia has not achieved any of Its strategic objectives that it set for itself almost three years ago.”
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
OF THE FIRST TWO NORTH KOREANS CAPTURED UKRAINE SAYS ONE HAD NO DOCUMENTS, WHILE THE OTHER CARRIED A RUSSIAN MILITARY ID. ONE CLAIMED HE WAS MISLED INTO THINKING HE WAS GOING TO RUSSIA FOR TRAINING. ESTIMATES SUGGEST 10,000 TO 12,000 NORTH KOREAN TROOPS WERE SENT TO FIGHT ALONGSIDE RUSSIAN FORCES, PRIMARILY IN INFANTRY ROLES.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
CHINA RECENTLY LAUNCHED ITS FIRST TYPE 076 AMPHIBIOUS ASSAULT SHIP, NAMED SICHUAN.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
AS PART OF THE CHINESE PEOPLE’S LIBERATION ARMY NAVY, THE SICHUAN BOLSTERS CHINA’S ABILITY FOR OPERATIONS FAR FROM THE CHINESE MAIN LAND. THE SHIP WILL UNDERGO VARIOUS TESTS, INCLUDING EQUIPMENT COMMISSIONING AND SEA TRIALS.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
CHINA’S NAVY IS IMPROVING ITS AMPHIBIOUS COMBAT ABILITIES AND PREVIOUSLY LAUNCHED ITS FIRST 075-CLASS SHIP, THE HAINAN, IN 2019, WHICH ENTERED SERVICE IN APRIL 2021, ALONG WITH TWO OTHER TYPE 075 SHIPS.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
IN A NOT-UNRELATED STORY, EARLIER THIS MONTH, TAIWAN CONDUCTED A SERIES OF MILITARY DRILLS AMID CONCERNS OVER POTENTIAL DEFENSE BUDGET CUTS DUE TO POLITICAL DISPUTES.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
IN CENTRAL TAIWAN, THE AIR FORCE CONDUCTED A DRILL WITH GROUND CREWS SERVICING TAIWANESE-MADE FIGHTER JETS, PREPARING FOR QUICK TAKEOFFS TO INTERCEPT POTENTIAL THREATS. A TAIWANESE MILITARY SPOKESPERSON SAID THEIR CREWS CAN BE AIRBORNE IN JUST A COUPLE MINUTES.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
GROUND STAFF ALSO DEMONSTRATED THE PAC-3 AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM AND ANTI-SUBMARINE EXERCISES ARE SET TO TAKE PLACE OFF KAOHSIUNG, TAIWAN’S LARGEST PORT AND A CRUCIAL AREA FOR CHINA IF IT TRIES TO RESUPPLY TROOPS.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
WHEN IT COMES TO ICONIC MILITARY VEHICLES, THE U.S. ARMY CAN CLAIM IT’S FAIR SHARE. FROM THE WILLYS JEEP AND THE SHERMAN TANK TO THE HUMVEE AND EVERY ITERATION OF THE M-1 ABRAMS, EVERY KID THAT EVER WANTED TO PLAY ARMY HAD A FAVORITE.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
BUT TIME, JUST LIKE THE ARMY, MARCHES ON, AND VEHICLES THAT ONCE RULED THE BATTLEFIELDS OF AMERICAN CONFLICTS HAVE TO GIVE WAY TO THE NEXT GENERATION OF POTENTIAL ICONS. IT’S AN ISSUE ARMY LEADERSHIP HAS BEEN ADDRESSING FOR YEARS. AND WHILE THINGS DO SEEM TO MOVE SLOW, THEY ARE MOVING.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
AND THAT’S THE SUBJECT OF THIS WEEK’S DEBRIEF.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
AMID ALL OF THE EYE CANDY ON DISPLAY AT THE 2024 AUSA ANNUAL MEETING, THERE WERE A SERIES OF PANELS AND ROUNDTABLES TACKLING THE VERY SERIOUS BUSINESS OF MODERNIZING THE ARMY FOR FUTURE CONFLICTS.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
ONE OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS WAS CENTERED ON THE ARMY’S PUSH TO BRING ITS NEXT GENERATION OF GROUND VEHICLES TO THE FIGHT. DURING A PANEL ON THAT VERY SUBJECT, TWO VEHICLES DOMINATED THE DISCUSSION: THE XM-30 AND THE M10 BOOKER.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
THE XM-30 MECHANIZED INFANTRY COMBAT VEHICLE HAS LONG BEEN VIEWED AS A REPLACEMENT FOR THE 40-YEAR-OLD BRADLEY INFANTRY FIGHTING VEHICLE. ON THE DRAWING BOARD SINCE 2014, THERE WERE PROBLEMS BRINGING THE PROJECT TO FRUITION.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
POTENTIAL COMPETITORS VIEWED THE PROGRAM’S TIMELINE AND STRICT OBJECTIVES AS UNREALISTIC SINCE THE BURDEN OF DEVELOPMENT COSTS LARGELY FELL ON THEIR SHOULDERS. AS A RESULT, MANY DEFENSE CONTRACTORS EVENTUALLY OPTED OUT OF PARTICIPATION. BUT IN EARLY 2020, THE ARMY ANNOUNCED IT WOULD RELAUNCH THE PROGRAM, TAKING ON A GREATER SHARE OF THE FUNDING RESPONSIBILITIES. ACCORDING TO COLONEL JEFF JURAND, PROJECT MANAGER FOR THE XM-30, THINGS ARE FINALLY COMING TOGETHER TO ALLOW THE PROJECT TO MOVE FORWARD.
[COL. JEFF JURAND]
“The vendors are on schedule to deliver their first prototypes within 22 months, and there’s no indication that they’re going to be unable to do that. So if I was going to shake my magic eight ball, what I would say would come up is the outlook looks good.”
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
ONE REASON WHY THINGS SEEM TO BE BACK ON TRACK FOR THE XM-30 IS A DOD-WIDE PUSH FOR DIGITAL ENGINEERING AS A FIRST STEP IN BRINGING THE ARMY’S REQUIREMENTS TO POTENTIAL BUILDERS.
[COL. JEFF JURAND]
“It’s been eye-opening. It’s a learning curve, certainly, to adapt to new methods. Our vendors have been great partners in this and have jumped into the deep end of the pool with us fully committed to it. And it truly is a partnership that we’re experiencing with both contracts as we evolve internally and have to retrain our workforce and, as the vendors, you know, see this space as well. So it’s been, it’s been a very insightful and eye-opening experience last couple years.”
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
IN JUNE 2023, THE ARMY SELECTED AMERICAN RHEINMETALL AND GENERAL DYNAMICS LAND SYSTEMS TO ADVANCE THE PROJECT BASED ON THREE PRIMARY CRITERIA: A TRACKED VEHICLE EQUIPPED WITH A HYBRID-ELECTRIC DRIVE, AN UNMANNED TURRET FEATURING EITHER A 50 MM AUTOCANNON OR A 30 MM TURRET THAT CAN BE UPGRADED TO THE LARGER CALIBER, AND A REDUCED CREW OF TWO WHILE ALLOWING SPACE FOR SIX INFANTRYMEN.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
WHILE THE XM-30 REMAINS IN THE DEVELOPMENTAL STAGES, THE M-10 IS ALREADY A REALITY.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
THE BOOKER, AS IT’S KNOWN, IS A MODERN ARMORED VEHICLE DESIGNED FOR MOBILITY, PROTECTION, AND FIREPOWER. IT FEATURES A WHEELED CHASSIS AND ADVANCED ARMOR AGAINST SMALL ARMS FIRE AND I-E-D-S. AND EVEN THOUGH IT MAY LOOK LIKE A TANK, COLONEL KEVIN BRADLEY, DIRECTOR OF THE ARMY’S NEXT GENERATION COMBAT VEHICLES CROSS-FUNCTIONAL TEAM, WAS QUICK TO POINT OUT IT IS NOT.
[COL. KEVIN BRADLEY]
“It’s mobile, protected firepower. It’s designed to support squads. Primary focus is to open holes in buildings, to take out bunkers and help them to accomplish their task in both lisco and urban fight, obviously, with the 105 cannon, it does have capability to defend itself in that and can be used in that role against enemy armor, if that was something that organization was facing, but it’s part of the formation, not designed or intended as a tank on tank unit.”
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
BUT DON’T LET THAT DISTINCTION FOOL YOU, THE M-10 PACKS A PUNCH. EQUIPPED WITH A REMOTE WEAPON STATION, IT CAN MOUNT VARIOUS ARMAMENTS, SUPPORTING INFANTRY OPERATIONS BY TRANSPORTING TROOPS WHILE PROVIDING EFFECTIVE FIRE SUPPORT.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
THE ARMY TOOK DELIVERY OF THE FIRST M-10 A LITTLE LESS THAN A YEAR AGO, AND THIS PAST MAY THEY ISSUED A SOLICITATION FOR FULL-RATE PRODUCTION.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
ALL TOLD THE ARMY IS PLANNING ON BUYING 504 M10S, ALL OF WHICH WILL BE ALLOTTED TO LIGHT DIVISIONS IN THE ACTIVE DUTY AND NATIONAL GUARD. THE 82ND AIRBORNE DIVISION WILL BECOME THE FIRST UNIT EQUIPPED WHEN 33 M10S ENTER FORT LIBERTY MOTOR POOLS IN LATE FISCAL YEAR 2025.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
WHILE THE RACE TO SECURE THE AIR FORCE CONTRACT FOR THE COLLABORATIVE COMBAT AIRCRAFT IS ONLY STARTING TO HEAT UP BETWEEN GENERAL ATOMICS AND ANDURIL, THERE IS ANOTHER RACE BEING RUN.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
THAT’S A METAPHORICAL SPRINT AMONG A HOST OF SMALLER CONTRACTORS LOOKING TO GET THEIR TECH ON BOARD WHATEVER PLATFORM THE AIR FORCE ULTIMATELY CHOOSES.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
ONE OF THOSE COMPANIES IS S-R-C, A NOT-FOR-PROFIT RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT FIRM THAT’S HOPING ONE OF THEIR LATEST PROJECTS WILL MAKE THE CUT. IT’S CALLED THE GHOST MANTIS AND IT’S OUR WEAPON OF THE WEEK.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
WITH A PROMOTIONAL VIDEO LOOKING LIKE SOMETHING OUT OF THE LATEST FPV VIDEO GAME, S-R-C’S GHOST MANTIS MAKES AN IMPRESSION. TUCKED INSIDE THE NOSE OF A CCA MOCK-UP TEAMED WITH AN F-35 AND F-15, THE MULTI-FUNCTION R-F SYSTEM GOES TO WORK.
[COL. DAVE TOOMEY]
“So the first thing is, all these platforms, both red platforms and blue platforms, their platforms and our platforms, all have sensors on them, right? And those sensors listen to the battlefield, right and try to make sense of what’s going on in electromagnetic spectrum, right? So if we can get inside of those sensors, and we can cause confusion in those sensors. We can cause the adversaries situational awareness to degrade, and we can start to force them to expose vulnerabilities, and then we can exploit and that’s really the goal.”
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
RETIRED AIR FORCE COLONEL DAVE TOOMEY IS S-R-C’S ASSISTANT V-P FOR BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT. HE SAYS THE COMPANY LISTENED TO WHAT AIR FORCE LEADERSHIP WANTS FROM A COST AND PERFORMANCE PERSPECTIVE WHEN DEVELOPING THE GHOST MANTIS.
[COL. DAVE TOOMEY]
“So we took a step back and say, how do we give them single-digit million capability that can be game-changing to keep these platforms affordable? Because the problem has been in the past. We started with attritable platforms. They got gold plated and nobody could afford them. So we said, we’re not going to go down that path. We’re going to make it affordable, and we’re going to make it so anybody else can take advantage of the technology and not lock it down.”
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
TOOMEY WENT ON TO TELL US WHILE THE PRIMARY GOAL IS TO GET ON BOARD THE CCA, IT’S NOT S-R-C’S ONLY TARGET.
[COL. DAVE TOOMEY]
“So Ghost Mantis is focused on the US market and the international market, mainly five eyes. The platform will fly at the end of this calendar year, and it’ll go into more flight tests next year. And so we’ve got customers that we’re talking to on both sides, multiple different platforms.”
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
AND NOT JUST WINGED PLATFORMS. S-R-C HAS ALSO EXPLORED PUTTING GHOST MANTIS ON DRONES THE SIZE OF WHAT THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT HAS ACQUIRED FOR ITS REPLICATOR INITIATIVE.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
NO WORD YET FROM S-R-C ON ANY CONFIRMED BUYERS.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
IN DECEMBER, WE TOLD YOU ABOUT A MERGER BETWEEN A COUPLE OF COMPANIES WHOSE WORK WE’VE PROFILED HERE ON WEAPONS AND WARFARE, AND NOW WE’RE HEARING FROM ONE OF THE MAIN PLAYERS IN THAT DEAL, AND THAT’S THE SUBJECT OF THIS WEEK’S COMMS CHECK.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT AEROVIRONMENT, A DEFENSE CONTRACTOR THAT’S BEEN AROUND FOR A LITTLE MORE THAN HALF A CENTURY, AND THEIR MERGER WITH D.C. BASED START-UP BLUEHALO. I RECENTLY HAD A CHANCE TO VISIT WITH BLUEHALO’S CEO JONATHAN MONEYMAKER, AND ASKED HIM ABOUT THE ALL-STOCK DEAL WORTH $4.1 BILLION.
[JONATHAN MONEYMAKER]
“I think what you’re looking at is really strength on strength. You know, when we started having conversations with AeroVironment, the fit was just extremely natural, similar DNA, similar passion for the mission, similar agility in being able to innovate and deliver the pedigree of advanced manufacturing that they’ve instilled across their organization for systems, whether they be their drone portfolio or Switch Blades, I think is really just a match made in heaven. So now, when you have, you know, both sides of that coin, you know you’re really looking at capitalizing on two fantastic organizations that that really were solving the very similar problem from different aspects. And now are really, you know, finding that that that new paradigm of of what it what it means to be the, the leading disruptor in our field, together with really no overlap.”
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
AEROVIRONMENT IS A LEADER IN DRONE MANUFACTURING, WITH THEIR SWITCHBLADE 600 LOITERING MUNITION BEING SELECTED FOR TRANCHE 1 OF THE DOD’S REPLICATOR INITIATIVE.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
AND IN JUNE OF LAST YEAR, THE U.S. ARMY COMBAT CAPABILITIES DEVELOPMENT COMMAND AVIATION & MISSILE CENTER SELECTED BLUEHALO AS ONE OF TWO VENDORS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE NEXT-GENERATION COUNTER-UNCREWED AERIAL SYSTEM MISSILE SYSTEM.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
ALRIGHT FOLKS, THAT’S GOING TO JUST ABOUT DO IT FOR US HERE THIS WEEK AT WEAPONS AND WARFARE. WANT TO REMIND EVERYONE ABOUT OUR SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS–AND SUGGEST YOU GIVE US A FOLLOW AND HELP US SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE SHOW.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
FOR MY WRAP THIS WEEK…I’M GOING TO SPEND A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT PERSPECTIVE.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
THE UNITED STATES SWORE IN A NEW PRESIDENT THIS WEEK–AND FOR HALF THE COUNTRY–IT’S NOT THEIR GUY WHO WON… SORT OF LIKE FOUR YEARS AGO–WHEN THE OTHER HALF OF THE COUNTRY THOUGHT THE NEW PRESIDENT TAKING OFFICE MEANT THE END OF EVERYTHING.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
BUT IT WASN’T. AND IT ISN’T.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
I HAVE THREE KIDS. THE OLDEST IS 16. THE YOUNGEST IS TWO.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
I TOOK THE OLDEST TO HER FIRST JOB INTERVIEW LAST WEEK. AND WE’RE TEACHING THE YOUNGEST IT’S BEST TO GO POTTY–IN THE POTTY.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
THE POINT IS–THEIR LIVES AREN’T OVER. THEIR LIVES ARE JUST BEGINNING. AND THAT KNOWLEDGE HELPS ME KEEP PERSPECTIVE.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF THINGS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE WORLD ON WHICH I HAVE NO INFLUENCE.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
BUT IN MY CORNER OF THE UNIVERSE–IN MY CIRCLE–THERE ARE PEOPLE I LOVE AND WHOSE LIVES I INFLUENCE EVERYDAY. INSTEAD OF YELLING INTO THE AETHER ABOUT THINGS I CAN’T CONTROL–MY TIME IS MUCH BETTER SPENT WITH THEM…DOING WHATEVER WE HAPPEN TO BE DOING IN THAT MOMENT.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
PRESIDENT TRUMP REPRESENTS A LOT OF CHANGE. SOME FOLKS ARE HAPPY ABOUT IT. SOME AREN’T. JUST LIKE IT WAS FOUR YEARS AGO… AND 8 YEARS AGO….AND SO ON AND SO ON.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
MAYBE SOMEDAY WE’LL LEARN ANGER AT AN OUTCOME DOESN’T CHANGE THE OUTCOME. BUT SOME QUALITY TIME SPENT WITH A LOVED ONE–THAT, COULD CHANGE EVERYTHING.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
SO, WHETHER YOU’RE IN THE HALF OF THE COUNTRY THAT’S UPSET ABOUT THE ELECTION OR NOT–AS WE EMBARK ON THE NEXT FOUR YEARS, TRY TO KEEP THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE. CONTROL WHAT YOU CAN CONTROL AND TRUST THAT WE’LL FIND OUR WAY. JUST AS WE FOUND OUR WAY THROUGH THE TURBULENCE OF THE 1960S, AND VARIOUS CHALLENGES OF THE 70s AND EARLY 2000s.
[RYAN ROBERTSON]
FOR SENIOR PRODUCER BRETT BAKER, VIDEO EDITOR BRIAN SPENCER, AND GRAPHICS ARTIST DAKOTA PITEO–I’M RYAN ROBERTSON, WITH STRAIGHT ARROW NEWS SIGNING OFF.
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